Today's episode is about financial wellbeing. There's an interesting evidence-based theory called the golden triangle of happiness. It says that there are three characteristics that make a big difference in how happy people are. One is close personal relationships, another is financial control and lastly, a sense of purpose. Relationships, finances, purpose. That's what makes it so important. Our guest, Rawson Gulick, CFP is going to help us figure out - what is financial wellness, do men and women view it differently and most importantly, what can we do about it? How can we achieve it in our own lives?
Guest – Rawson Gulick, CFP, CAIA
rawson@willowcreekwealth.com
https://willowcreekwealth.com
After nearly 20 years in institutional financial services, I decided it was time to take my career in a fresh direction. I started my career in financial services and have held a range of institutional-level positions across management, trading, client service, and marketing. In 2019 I joined Willow Creek as wealth advisor to bring my insights from working with giant institutions toward helping individuals and families to better shape their financial well-being, their lives, and their world.
My approach to client care is grounded in my belief that financial freedom often inspires greater generosity, which is where true fulfillment is found. On the wealth management front, I love deconstructing financial complexities into elegant solutions, and empowering people to make more joyful decisions with their money and their life.
I have been an advocate for women in investing for my entire career. I host our Women’s Circles, which are gatherings where women come together to explore and share wisdom on topics relating to money and values. These rich conversations are designed to build community, connection, and understanding.
As a member of Willow Creek's Sustainable Investing Committee, I help clients to align their portfolios with their values. Being a part of the community and supporting the shared values of human well-being and environmental sustainability are part of what is fulfilling to me in my career. I am passionate about connecting with community members and sharing my expertise in sustainable investing.
Host – Teresa Mitchell, CFP
ladymoneyllc@gmail.com
In my 20 years in the industry, I have had over a thousand conversations with women who have not felt they have reached their financial potential – usually in the areas of investing and subsequent financial security. I have found the key to moving forward from the image of bag lady to empowered lady is having a different kind of conversation with women than they usually experience with a financial advisor. It is about focusing more deeply on what matters in terms of family, community and life purpose. Approaching the conversation with compassion and a goal of honest, authentic connection creates a sense of trust that makes financial education and taking investment action not only possible but desirable.
To that end I left my longtime wealth management firm and am launching a personal financial coaching platform -- LADY MONEY, LLC. It is intended to help women achieve a sense of financial wellbeing around investing for retirement that imparts peace of mind and ultimately leads to financial security.
In the Lady Money program, I use my prior experience in consumer education as a media chef for the food & wine industry to create exercises that are simple and fun yet effective. There are many similarities between food and money. We tend to view both with outsize emotions and limiting beliefs. But in their simplest form, food is fuel & money is a tool. Are they more? Not in and of themselves. It is up to you to use them as your own personal palette. At the heart of it – they don’t have the power – you do.
Guest – Rawson Gulick, CFP, CAIA
rawson@willowcreekwealth.com
https://willowcreekwealth.com
After nearly 20 years in institutional financial services, I decided it was time to take my career in a fresh direction. I started my career in financial services and have held a range of institutional-level positions across management, trading, client service, and marketing. In 2019 I joined Willow Creek as wealth advisor to bring my insights from working with giant institutions toward helping individuals and families to better shape their financial well-being, their lives, and their world.
My approach to client care is grounded in my belief that financial freedom often inspires greater generosity, which is where true fulfillment is found. On the wealth management front, I love deconstructing financial complexities into elegant solutions, and empowering people to make more joyful decisions with their money and their life.
I have been an advocate for women in investing for my entire career. I host our Women’s Circles, which are gatherings where women come together to explore and share wisdom on topics relating to money and values. These rich conversations are designed to build community, connection, and understanding.
As a member of Willow Creek's Sustainable Investing Committee, I help clients to align their portfolios with their values. Being a part of the community and supporting the shared values of human well-being and environmental sustainability are part of what is fulfilling to me in my career. I am passionate about connecting with community members and sharing my expertise in sustainable investing.
Host – Teresa Mitchell, CFP
ladymoneyllc@gmail.com
In my 20 years in the industry, I have had over a thousand conversations with women who have not felt they have reached their financial potential – usually in the areas of investing and subsequent financial security. I have found the key to moving forward from the image of bag lady to empowered lady is having a different kind of conversation with women than they usually experience with a financial advisor. It is about focusing more deeply on what matters in terms of family, community and life purpose. Approaching the conversation with compassion and a goal of honest, authentic connection creates a sense of trust that makes financial education and taking investment action not only possible but desirable.
To that end I left my longtime wealth management firm and am launching a personal financial coaching platform -- LADY MONEY, LLC. It is intended to help women achieve a sense of financial wellbeing around investing for retirement that imparts peace of mind and ultimately leads to financial security.
In the Lady Money program, I use my prior experience in consumer education as a media chef for the food & wine industry to create exercises that are simple and fun yet effective. There are many similarities between food and money. We tend to view both with outsize emotions and limiting beliefs. But in their simplest form, food is fuel & money is a tool. Are they more? Not in and of themselves. It is up to you to use them as your own personal palette. At the heart of it – they don’t have the power – you do.
Episode Summary:
Welcome! Today's episode is about financial wellbeing. There's an interesting evidence-based theory called the golden triangle of happiness. It says that there are three characteristics that make a big difference in how happy people are. One is close personal relationships, another is financial control and lastly, a sense of purpose. Relationships, finances, purpose. That's what makes it so important. Our guest, Rawson Gulick, CFPÒ is going to help us figure out - what is financial wellness, do men and women view it differently and most importantly, what can we do about it? How can we achieve it in our own lives?
Episode Transcript:
Teresa Mitchell, CFP: Values and money don't mix. Hm. Or do they? Join me, financial coach, Teresa Mitchell to find out. Let's explore how women can make money while making a difference. This is Lady Money. Welcome! Today's episode is about financial wellbeing. Why you might ask? Well, there's an interesting evidence-based theory called the golden triangle of happiness.
And that theory says that there are three characteristics that make a big difference in how happy people are. One is close personal relationships, another is financial control and lastly, a sense of purpose. Relationships, finances, purpose. That's what makes it so important. So today our guest is going to help us figure out - what is financial wellness, do men and women view it differently and most importantly, what can we do about it? How can we achieve it in our own lives? So, with us today is my friend and certified financial planner, Rawson Gulick. She's a wealth advisor with Willow Creek Wealth Management in the Sonoma County wine country. So, let's go, let'sget started.
Hello, Rawson. Welcome to Lady Money, the podcast.
Rawson Gulick, CFP, CAIA: Thanks, Teresa, so much for having me.
Teresa Mitchell, CFP: So, tell me, I know you're from Savannah. How did you end up making a career in money and investing?
Rawson Gulick, CFP, CAIA: Well, it's a great story. I moved out to California from Georgia to follow my older brother back in the nineties during the first.com boom. And I have been in so many parts of the financial services industry and just am thrilled to be where I am today, working with individuals and to the topic that we're talking about today, helping them get more in alignment with their financial wellbeing.
Teresa Mitchell, CFP: I know you're very passionate about what you do about helping people, especially women. So, can you remember a specific moment where you just kind of knew that this is what you wanted to do? Becoming a financial advisor?
Rawson Gulick, CFP, CAIA: It sort of came a little bit later career because I spent essentially the first 18 to 20 years focused on a different part of the business where it was more directed toward institutions toward big corporate and public pension plans and things like that.
As I started to get older, personal satisfaction and my sense of really giving back was missing. I really needed to get closer to the individual and started to really peel the onion back on what the industry had to offer.
Teresa Mitchell, CFP: I want to read a quote from your bio just to lead into some of our questions, because I think our listeners, while they're familiar with the term wellbeing, it's sort of like, uh but, financial wellbeing. What is that? You said: "to bring my insights from working with giant institutions, toward helping individuals and families to better shape their financial wellbeing, their lives and their world". So, my question to you, then, if you were explaining that to another woman, to a client, how would you define financial wellbeing?
Rawson Gulick, CFP, CAIA: You know, it's really a sense of calm. It's a sense of security, of confidence about your money, about how you're using your money to have a sense of financial wellbeing is really to not have that insecurity about your money. And it's not about the quantity of money that you have. You can have a sense of financial wellbeing and not a huge income and massive wealth.
It's really about understanding how the little choices fit together. It's a sense of, of calm so that you can sleep at night so that you're not stressed out. You and I have talked so many times about the bag lady syndrome. It's something that a lot of women have, you know, they're so afraid. Afraid that they're not going to have enough.
Teresa Mitchell, CFP: The other thing that I think a lot of people don't realize, especially women, is there's a flip side to what you said, just because you have money does not mean you have financial wellbeing.
Rawson Gulick, CFP, CAIA: It's about your relationship to that. It's about understanding who you are, what you value and then how to express that through your financial world.
Teresa Mitchell, CFP: I've been thinking about this a lot, given your life experience, but also as an advisor, are you seeing a difference? I know that there are men, many men that are concerned about wellbeing, but do you think men and women kind of have a different approach, a different definition to that?
Rawson Gulick, CFP, CAIA: Well, it might not be a popular opinion today, but I do. If we take a broader look and say the approach that men and women have to their financial world, I think it does tie into what they're trying to accomplish. I can speak about my world and about how I've approached money throughout my life. And my husband has a different approach to that. He's very much a provider, so he has a very rigid provider mentality. And so, he wants to get all the details down and make sure that all the boxes are checked and move right on. And I like to sort of marinate a little bit more. So, for me, I like to really understand what my relationship with whatever the financial situation is, whether that's the remodel that we're still have in our dreams of our home, or to make sure that we've got enough homeowners insurance on our home in Sonoma County for the wildfires, for example.
So, I do think men and women approach things differently. And I think that women do tend to have a little bit more trepidation about approaching finances. You know, I think that in our sort of traditional roles men have been focused more on being a provider and women maybe have gotten left behind a little bit.
Teresa Mitchell, CFP: I think that's true. And I think that's also one of the things that holds women back in being more in charge of their financial situation. Especially if they're in a couple. Hey, I'm busy, that's taken care of. But, also not wanting to step on toes, especially the toes of your loved one! So, I wondered, do you have any tips from your own life about how to negotiate that difference in perspective?
Rawson Gulick, CFP, CAIA: Yeah. I think courage is a lot of that, right. So, you know, I speak from personal experience through my own financial development over the years and from relationships and from career growth and all of that. You have to have the courage to say, you know what?
I don't get that. Or could you say it one more time because I might've missed a point, or could you give me maybe an anecdote that helps to relate that more back to my world? Really just to be able to raise your hand, be brave and say, I didn't quite get that.
Teresa Mitchell, CFP: I think that's a really good point because when it comes down to it, if as human beings we put in the work, not only on financial wellness, but on physical and mental wellness, then that's where I think the courage comes from.
Rawson Gulick, CFP, CAIA: Yeah.
Teresa Mitchell, CFP: People have wondered why we spend time on values in my Lady Money women's coaching program and a lot of that is centering, is getting back to that authentic self. And that gives you the power to say, Hey, I don't understand that. Maybe I should maybe I should have learned that, but I don't, here is where I am. And when you can do that, it makes it possible to move forward toward financial independence, financial security, toward investing, whatever you're trying to do, even though, you know, you may not know as much as you want to know.
Rawson Gulick, CFP, CAIA: I love what you said there and bringing in health and, and other aspects of wellbeing, it's all the same. It's all connected. And if you can sort of play on what you do for your mental health and what you do for your physical health, and then bring that full circle. And make sure that I understand my relationship to finances and how that relates back to those values to be able to make better decisions. That will be empowering as well. And then you can maybe tap into what's driving some of those desires.
Teresa Mitchell, CFP: Maybe we should get down to the nitty gritty and how our listeners would be able to reach a higher level of financial wellness. Maybe some of the things they could do, because I know from your background, you've been in the financial world for longer than, than someone like me.
I was originally a professional chef and that was one of the big reasons that I chose to become a financial advisor, because I was worried about my future. I was worried about the future of my family. I feel like I didn't know anything, didn't understand anything. And so, it was really important to me to do a better job.
That's one of the reasons I'm coaching now is to pass that on, you know, like pass it on, hand up. Help other women do a better job of this. So, I know one of the things that you talked about was having more control and I hate to use the B word, but what do you think about budgets? And that is so off-putting and I, I wonder if that's one of the things that holds women back from getting a better handle on their financial situation.
Rawson Gulick, CFP, CAIA: That's interesting. I hadn't really thought of that the budget would be holding them back, but it kind of makes sense because, you know, maybe that's the thing that they're afraid of. I don't want to look at it. I don't want to look at it. So, I'm not going to do it. I've been working with a lot of clients on their cash flows. I try not to call it budget because people don't necessarily like that. So, it's cash flows. It's what's coming in. What's going out. And then what do you have in the future that's going to be coming in and where are you going to make up those differences?
I've built a lovely workbook that I like to share with clients that has income and expenses and how you can break your expenses down into fixedexpenses versus discretionary expenses, where you may have a little bit of flexibility and really try and make it as straightforward as possible.
I was working with a teacher recently, so she's got a pension coming. She's got a little bit of social security coming. And so, we're just really trying to figure out, okay, you've got this many years, how do we want to fill in those gaps? And so, if you think about it ahead of time then it, doesn't become so scary.
The other thing I can say is our society has really discouraged us from talking about money. I know that you have had the same experiences that once you sort of open that door to the conversation, people are getting so much out of talking about money and not in a braggadocious way, not in a materialistic kind of way. But Hey, here's my experience.
What's your experience been? And maybe we can help each other sort of navigate this and you find that there are little things like that. Oh, I didn't realize that was going to take my social security income down a little bit. Maybe I should think about that ahead of time or, Oh, I didn't realize that if I pushed my retirement out even 18 months, that that would increase my income in retirement.
Teresa Mitchell, CFP: Also, it seems overwhelming, but you can start small. I mean, you can even start on a legal pad. It doesn't really have to be down to every latte. I think if people just know what's coming in, what's going out and then, - um, Hey Petey! Rawson has a wonderful dog named Petey. Um, so it's a matter of just being on top of it enough so that you can make more intelligent decisions.
And that's what you were referring to before, because if you kind of generally know where your money is going, then you have choices, you have options. So that's why budget probably is a bad word. Maybe, thoughtful spending is a better way of putting it. You know, it puts you in the driver's seat and that is a lot of it. I know there's been some studies. Wellness is such a mainstream concept now that there is actually data on this. And one of the points they make is simply having some control over your day-to-day finances.
Rawson Gulick, CFP, CAIA: Yeah. And I mean, it goes back again to the values conversation. Its what's really important and what's important to you and is your short-term spending, getting in the way of that. So, when you are trying to make decisions about those discretionary items to say - I know for myself that being able to travel in my retirement, whatever... I think that we should have a conversation about that one day too.
Teresa Mitchell, CFP: A new word.
Rawson Gulick, CFP, CAIA: You know, traveling and exploring other cultures and other food is really important to me. But if I, for example, go out to an expensive dinner post-COVID, then that may not be in alignment with what my long-term values are.
Teresa Mitchell, CFP: That makes a good point because it's my understanding that women's brains are wired differently than men's in terms of long-term. That women look, and maybe that's the interest in family and community, but they tend to look long-term.
So maybe you could say something about financial planning, planning for the future and what that does for somebody's feeling of financial wellbeing.
Rawson Gulick, CFP, CAIA: I think it's so important to have that look and sit down with a journal or a pad of paper and think about what your ideal future looks like and map it out to think about the things that really are going to bring you joy into the future. There's a program that I like called future authoring and,
Teresa Mitchell, CFP: Um, don't know that one.
Rawson Gulick, CFP, CAIA: Yeah, it's a clinical psychologist designed it. It just goes through some steps about what kind of questions to ask yourself, really focusing in on what your values are, and then thinking about how you're going to express those as you get older. So, I mean, it's not magical thinking. It actually is like, Oh, I know that I want to have a life where I've got a beautiful garden and that I have the skills to grow the food. Oh, maybe I'm going to go to the master gardener’s workshop that talks about the benefits of staggering out seeds for your vegetable starts or whatever it is. That's a goal of mine. And I know that these steps are going to help me get there faster.
Teresa Mitchell, CFP: And I think something you mentioned also made me realize I'm older than you are. And one of the other problems with women achieving financial wellness is I think when you're younger, your focus is more short-term on the immediate issue, whether that's raising your family or establishing a career or finding something purposeful or whatever that is. The problem is if something happens or for sure when you get older, women are almost always the last one standing. From personal experience, I can definitely say it's very, very difficult to come to speed in terms of your financial situation and how to handle it in a crisis. And I think women are smart enough to know this intuitively. And so, I guess the point that I'm making is - there starts to be kind of a discomfort around finances. I think that's what leads to the bag lady nightmare is that you don't know exactly why, and you don't know what to do about it, but you're worried about something. So, I think that's, what's so important about really addressing your financial situation sooner rather than later.
Rawson Gulick, CFP, CAIA: Yeah, I agree with that. And I think that there are a couple of things to tie that back to. One is going back to the courage, the courage to say, Hey, I'm struggling with this. And if you don't know how to help me, do you know of some sort of resources that I can use? Maybe that's a senior center. Maybe that's some other consumer organization, whether that's a CFP financial planner or some other kind of organization that offers maybe even free resources to a community. Particularly if you're talking about women that have been left alone through the loss of a spouse or a grey divorce, we do see that quite often. And so, having the courage to speak up and say, I don't know if I know how to do this and I, I might need a little help.
The other component of that future authoring program that I was talking about. So, it's not just about looking at all the possibilities. It's also about looking at what a bad outcome would be, and then you've got your hazard signs up. So, you can say, okay, this is not where I want to go. And that would be the bag lady. Right? I don't want to be in a situation where I can't afford my housing, or I'm put in a housing situation that is undesirable.
What would the steps be and what decisions would I have to make to land in that position? Then having your radar up to say, Oh, well maybe I really don't need a new pair of $250 shoes right now. You know, maybe I can get some more use out of this other one...
Teresa Mitchell, CFP: but they’re so gorgeous!
Rawson Gulick, CFP, CAIA: I know. So, uh or whatever your indulgence is. Again, for me, it's food and it's some beautiful things, but for someone else, it might be spoiling the grandkids or taking the family on a vacation. So, knowing what your outcomes are, which is desirable, which is not desirable and making sure that you're paying attention to those signs on both sides.
Teresa Mitchell, CFP: That's where the possibility of financial wellness comes in, is when we have done our work on our financial situation. And that doesn't mean knowing everything. We just need to know enough that you know, what you don't know. So, you know, when to get help. You know, what to research, whether it was the social security that you mentioned, or the difference that working longer, the amazing difference that can make in terms of cashflow in retirement. And it, isn't just the loss of a loved one. It's also a career transition too, because if you are on top of your financial situation, that gives you options. You can make career decisions; you can decide to open your own business. You can make a decision to stay at home with the family for a while or pursue some additional education. It can be very uncomfortable if you don't really know whether you can afford to or not. Or give yourself the chance to save up an emergency fund or the different steps that it would be wise to take before you make one of those decisions.
Rawson Gulick, CFP, CAIA: Well, and luckily for a lot of people, there are so many different ways that you can engage with financial planning and doing analysis of what your options are with what your resources are.
And because of technology out there is just incredible now. If it's not in your budget to work with a financial planner, there's so many other options out there. There is everything from Vanguard, or Charles Schwab has an easily engageable platform. There are all kinds of free blogs and spreadsheets that you can download and questionnaires just to get you started and get you thinking.
Teresa Mitchell, CFP: And other women, there may be a lot of women that know less, but there's women that know more. And I've never met anyone that isn't generous about sharing what their situation is and being helpful and saying, yes, I went through that this is what I did. In that vein, before we wrap up, I think it would be great for you and I to give our listeners some tips that they can do to achieve a higher level of financial wellness.
One is - cashflow, but it's just making sure that they have at least a rough idea what's coming in, what's going out and maybe net worth too. That's really pretty easy. It's this is what you have - your assets, and this is whatyou owe - your liabilities. And that equals net worth. That gives you some basic ammunition for the kind of financial decisions that happen in life.
Rawson Gulick, CFP, CAIA: Now that's certainly a great place to start. And you know, for me, it still goes back to the values because if you don't know what your values are, then you're probably not going to make the best decisions for yourself.
Maybe creating like a, sort of an AB testing type scenario. So, when you're looking at what your, what your outflow is, what your expenses are.
Does that align with what my values are? Is that getting me closer to being the best in that area of my life, that I can be. Separating it a little bit from the finances, from that place that we all have so much resistance and bringing it back to the values. But yes, your point initially is, there's so much impact that can be made based on what your spending decisions are. So similarly, to waiting a couple of years to retire, if you reduce that budget down a few thousand dollars, it can make all the difference.
Teresa Mitchell, CFP: It's surprising. I think for the women that haven't seen a financial plan; they would be shocked; the difference it makes in retirement cashflow.
Rawson Gulick, CFP, CAIA: The other thing I would just add to the exercise is, is to start wherever you are with what you know, your retirement income is at the moment. So, I'm 50, I've gotten my social security statement, so I know how much I would be estimated to bring in from social security. I have a small pension from a former employer, and then I have my investment assets. Now I've got 15 or 20 years to be able to figure out how to make up those gaps between the income that we have now and the income that we know we're going to have in retirement. So, we've got some time to put some structure around that and to make better decisions.
Teresa Mitchell, CFP: Right. Because if you, again, roughly know what you're spending, then you can look at that and say, well, this I won't have to do in retirement, but these things I will. So that gives you your "nut", you know, your, your rough number of what you need in order to maintain your lifestyle. And so, then what you're saying is that allows people ahead of time to figure out what they're going to need to save, because social security is great, but that's only going to pay for part of it. Then you need to figure out what you need to save just in terms of other investments.
Rawson Gulick, CFP, CAIA: Exactly. And it's not just about saving. I mean, its saving is certainly a large component of it, but it could also be using your human capital in a different way at a different phase in life. So, you either got to cut the spending or you got to bring more money in and bringing more money in, in that later stage of life could be fun.
Teresa Mitchell, CFP: And women, that's a whole other topic. It's just, women need to do a better job of appreciating their talent, what that's really worth in the in the workplace.
There's one last thing. Rawson is on the sustainable investing committee of her firm. And so, I'm going to bring her back sometime later this year. And we're going to talk more about that because I think another barrier to financial wellness for women is investing. Even if they're doing a reasonable job on the rest of it. There's I think some guilt, confusion, fear, trepidation, you know, however you want to describe it if they're not investing. So, we'll be talking more about that in another podcast episode, but I do think in the work that I've been doing with women, it doesn't take that much to get through that barrier.
Rawson Gulick, CFP, CAIA: I agree a hundred percent. Yeah. And, you know, gosh, especially in our current environment with a soaring stock market in all kinds of headlines out there it can certainly be intimidating when you don't know the language.
If you can really just get the fundamentals and understand really what the investing is for, you don't have to be a master stock picker. You need to understand the relationship between risk and reward, and you need to be able to try and keep pace with inflation and beat that or else your buying power is going to be much less later.
So, understanding that it is an important component to building that reserve for when you're not going to be bringing in as much or any income from a job, then it becomes a little bit easier, I think, to approach. And then also just embracing the fact that like most people aren't that interested in it. So that's okay. And so, if you can find somebody that you can trust to give you a little guidance and whether that's working with a financial advisor or whether that's just having a conversation with someone in the financial community that you can trust that can just give you a little bit of direction. There are a lot of solutions out there that don't require you to be making stock decisions.
Teresa Mitchell, CFP: And I think just to reiterate again, women have to realize in terms of that bag lady syndrome, investing is one of your big tools in your kit. So, it's just something that, you know, you really can't ignore.
Well, Rawson, this has been so lovely to talk with you about this. Thank you very much. I feel like I've gotten a lot out of it, learned a lot and I hope our listeners have too.
Rawson Gulick, CFP, CAIA: Well, thank you so much for having me, Teresa. I always love having a conversation with you and I look forward to coming back and digging deeper into values and how we can make smart decisions with our money toward making the world a better place.
Teresa Mitchell, CFP: Well, I hope you enjoyed the episode. How about a little recap? I think one of my favorite moments was when Rawson described financial wellbeing as a sense of calm. And she also used the word confidence, confidence that if we put in the work, we can achieve financial security. I think it was also interesting talking about the difference that men and women have in their view of financial wellbeing.
Rawson has found in her experience that women like to take their time and they want to relate it to their family and community. I think one of the most important things we discussed was how do we achieve financial well-being in our own lives. Number 1) clarify your values. 2) get a handle on your spending, including what you have. 3) talk about it. We need to talk more about money. And 4) get help. There are a lot of resources out there, including some very good financial advisors.
So, thank you for listening. If you would like more information on my guest Rawson Gulick, or on Lady Money, check out the show notes. Well, until next time, this has been Lady Money -- where money and values do mix.