Women have been programmed to think they aren’t good with money. So, we end up in a – I have to, but I can’t – destructive mental loop. Here are some common financial mistakes women make: • Lack of long-term planning • Focusing on the numbers • Underestimating risk • Not recognizing the power of a budget • Investing too conservatively • Not talking about money (or money attitudes) • Not addressing end-of-life planning • Failing to review your plan periodically
Guest – Frances Harkins, CFP, AIF www.wheelsupwealthinc.com
Frances Harkins is a CERTIFIED FINANCIAL PLANNER™ professional who has helped Bay Area families, individuals and business owners understand and solve their financial concerns since 2000. Working with those in a variety of professional fields, Frances devotes her time to developing long-term, trusting relationships with every client. In her position as Director of Financial Planning at Wheels Up Wealth, Frances takes pride in helping women gain greater confidence in money matters. In doing so, her goal is to help these clients feel empowered to effectively manage their financial resources.
Host – Teresa Mitchell, CFP ladymoneyllc@gmail.com
In my 20 years in the industry, I have had over a thousand conversations with women who have not felt they have reached their financial potential – usually in the areas of investing and subsequent financial security. I have found the key to moving forward from the image of bag lady to empowered lady is having a different kind of conversation with women than they usually experience with a financial advisor. It is about focusing more deeply on what matters in terms of family, community and life purpose. Approaching the conversation with compassion and a goal of honest, authentic connection creates a sense of trust that makes financial education and taking investment action not only possible but desirable.
To that end I left my longtime wealth management firm and am launching a personal financial coaching platform -- LADY MONEY, LLC. It is intended to help women achieve a sense of financial wellbeing around investing for retirement that imparts peace of mind and ultimately leads to financial security.
Resources...
Loaded: Money, Psychology, and How to Get Ahead without Leaving Your Values Behind by Sarah Newcomb https://www.amazon.com/Loaded-Psychology-without-Leaving-Values/dp/1119258324
The Four Money Bears by Mac Gardner, CFP
https://www.amazon.com/Four-Money-Bears-Gardner-Paperback/dp/B010711DUW
Teresa Mitchell, CFP: Values and money don't mix, or do they? Join me financial coach, Teresa Mitchell, to find out. Let's explore how women can make money while making a difference. This is Lady Money.
Welcome! Today we're going to talk about common financial mistakes. Each of us has a unique financial situation. And I firmly believe failure is a part of success. But as financial advisors, we have seen a broad variety of missteps and sharing some of those stories may help you to avoid a few. My guest for this episode is Francis Harkins, a CERTIFIED FINANICAL PLANNER™ with Wheels Up Wealth in Benicia, California.
We are going to talk about the failure to consider long-term planning, especially around saving for retirement. Women's tendency to focus on others and leaving their own dreams out of the planning process. The price of holding onto risk aversion when it comes to long-term investing and why end of life planning is so important. Let's get started!
Teresa Mitchell, CFP: Welcome to Lady Money -- the Podcast Frances.
Frances Harkins, CFP: Well, thank you, Theresa. It's nice to be here.
Teresa Mitchell, CFP: Can you tell me and our listeners a little bit about your educational background? I found it really interesting. I believe you have a master's in economics. Did you have some big plans about what you were going to do with that degree?
Frances Harkins, CFP: Oh, that's an interesting question. I haven't been asked that in a very long time. Um, I was at UC, Santa Barbara. And I was just trying to figure out, what is it that I really want to do in life. I really had no strong feeling about it. And my brother said, “Hey, why don't you take an economics class? You might like that.”
And frankly, I loved it. There was a great professor there. It helped me kind of understand things that I might've felt passionately about. So, I took that class and then it was just off from there. I just really enjoyed the idea of economics and frankly, wasn't sure what I was going to do with it when I got done, but I studied abroad for a couple of years during my master's and my undergraduate and learn Spanish.
Teresa Mitchell, CFP: Can I ask about that? That really peaked my interest because you studied both in, I mean, Mexico makes sense given you were in Southern California. But Spain, you know, so why -- have you loved languages or...?
Frances Harkins, CFP: Well, it's just, I grew up in Southern California, like you say, and I wanted to take a language and to me it really made sense to speak Spanish because that's what was all around us. And that would have had the most usefulness. And I guess I'd kind of taken that through my life in terms of what's most useful. And I always worked in Mexican restaurants. Once I had taken a couple of classes, I worked in Mexican restaurants. So, I tell people my first career was waiting tables at Mexican restaurants from high school and on through college.
Anyway, I got to the second year of school, and I started hearing about the education abroad program. And of course, I wanted to go to learn Spanish, but I also wanted to go to Europe. So that's what I did. I applied for that, and I went to Spain for a year -- Madrid specifically. And then, uh, when I got back, I actually met another gal who was studying economics. There was a group of maybe 50 of us and somebody else from UC, Santa Barbara. And it was kind of unusual. Econ was our major. So, when we got back, somehow, we ended up in the economic department asking if there were any programs where we could go and continue learning more Spanish. And they were just putting together this program through UC called the business economics exchange program -- Beep in Monterrey, Mexico, which is a real industrial area of Mexico. She, and I both got a fellowship to do that. And we spent the academic year there and then an internship in a bank in Mexico City the following summer.
Teresa Mitchell, CFP: Did that have anything to do with, I see that it looked like in your early career that you were on the other side of what you're doing now, as an analyst. And that you also did work in a bank.
Frances Harkins, CFP: What I really had hoped to do was go into international business of some sort or banking, or what have you. When I finished my graduate degree, it was 1983 and the economy was still really bad around the world. They had what was called the MBAs, or Mexico, Brazil, and Argentina at the time they called it, and they were all defaulting on their loans and things were really tough in Latin America, which is where I would have wanted to end up.
So, I started working at Bank of America and that's what led me to financial planning. They started this group called customized financial services for their higher net worth clients. And so, they put me in that group. And at first, I thought, oh, I really would rather have gone into commercial banking. I just didn't see myself doing retail kind of banking. And, um, I loved it. I loved helping the people that came in. I loved learning about how somebody's... We had a lot of doctors. I was in Long Beach at the time. We had a lot of doctors as clients and some doctors really got it -- were really good with their money and some made a lot of money and didn't get it and spent it all.
So, there wasn't really a big correlation between how much they earned and how much they had because they had very different approaches to money. So, I was fascinated with the human side of that, and I really liked working with people to try and get them to their goals.
Teresa Mitchell, CFP: That's amazing because a lot of people that I think are interested in analytics, you know are more, I think of them as more nerdy, more really liking the nuts and bolts of the numbers and the technology and all that. But in terms of what we do, both of us being financial advisors to real people, it's that connection. It’s that interest in humanity and in helping others -- is really the most important part of what we do.
Frances Harkins, CFP: Exactly. And I think that's what I really liked about economics. I always felt very confident as a young girl in math, but I didn't want to go in that direct real nerdy route. So, when I found economics and realized it's a social science and really, it's all about human behavior and trying to find what's best for you or what's best for your company or what's best for your family -- with money as its tool. I was just fascinated by the connection of the two.
Teresa Mitchell, CFP: Well, speaking of behavior, it seems to me, in my experience that women are lagging a bit in terms of really getting on top of their situation. I think we both share the thoughts that we're doing some of our most important work with women that are suddenly in a position of having to take charge due to loss of a spouse or divorce. Or maybe they've inherited money from their parents, whatever that is... Suddenly what's been pushed aside, becomes center stage. I wondered in terms of the need and how you feel about doing that sort of work?
Frances Harkins, CFP: I'm very passionate about trying to give confidence to women that they can make good financial decisions. It seems in our culture, women generally take a back seat and again, I'm generalizing, so I don't want to say all women, but often we find that the female in, in the pair is often someone who is taking less risk, maybe getting less involved in the finances, and may be led to feel, um, not very confident in how to handle money. Maybe they didn't see good role models in their family. So, to me, it's really important to help give them the confidence and tell them stories about where women really are better in many instances at managing finances than the stereotypical male.
And again, I don't mean to be generalizing, but what we often see is that women lack the confidence to get in there and invest. So, if they are able to save, they save in a very conservative fashion and they also have a lot of other obstacles. They are usually the one that takes time off to take care of the children or the parents or other family members. It's usually the woman. Because of that, in part, there's generally a pay gap because she has been out of the workforce longer, not to mention the kind of pay inequity that we have in the country. So, there's a lot of things that women experience in life that makes it even more important for them to save and understand what they're doing and to take control and speak up and use their ideas in terms of what the family should do with money.
Divorce is another one where women usually get left behind because often it's a combination of the things we've already spoken about, where the earning potential might not be there. The man has earning potential that he takes with him. The woman usually ended up staying home or having to worry about the children and who's going to take care of them. And then of course we live longer.
Teresa Mitchell, CFP: You mentioned confidence. And that is one of the things that really struck me in speaking to many, many women over the years that I was a financial advisor. I was just amazed at the lack of confidence that women had around money. So, one of the real kingpins in the whole dilemma of women not taking charge of their financial situation is lack of confidence. Where do you think that comes from?
Frances Harkins, CFP: You know, as you're speaking, it's dawning on me because I mentioned too that I always felt confident with math. But I find even today with all the information, because I've been a member of the American Association of University Women and Soroptimist a lot of female groups that really encourage women in science, tech, math fields. And even today... I heard a young teenager say, “Oh, I can't, the register is not working... I can't do the change because I'm not good at math.” I don't know. Maybe that lack of confidence toward money comes from this sense that we have in our society that women just aren't as good at math.
So, maybe that's where it comes from or the expectation that this is something that's coming down through the generations, that this is something that the male does not the woman. I tell women, if there's a couple where the man has been primarily involved, it's generally not going to be as robust of a financial picture as if the female had gotten in there. Just to put on the brakes and say, “Hey, let's question what we're doing. Let's question this new purchaser, this refinance, or this investment portfolio, like, should we have so much money extended out?” So, the thought process that women have can add so much to another way of thinking, in terms of coming to a better decision. That I think women need to be told more and more.
Teresa Mitchell, CFP: I think you're absolutely right. The woman needs to get involved, partly because it's better for the relationship. It's better in terms of decision-making, but it also may be in necessity if there's a crisis.
I heard a great story. A woman and her husband had gone to a meeting and the husband was nodding, you know, in the meeting, nodding, you know, to everything the advisor said. And she was just sitting there feeling smaller and smaller because she didn't understand anything the advisor was saying. And she thought, well, thank goodness he, my husband, does. And so, she asked him, “Well, why do you understand all this?” And he said, “Oh, I didn't understand any of it.” And suddenly the light went on like, “Oh God, you know, I thought he was going to handle all that.” “I need to get involved in this.”
Frances Harkins, CFP: Yeah. You know, and again, it's that confidence. Right. And we see it in our careers as well. And you hear about it even on resumes. Women tend to not put things on the resumes that would really show them in a good light. And men tend to exaggerate what they have on their resumes. So, I think you're seeing that it's carrying through with the financial discussion and it is funny as a financial advisor, you can see the nodding. Men generally do want to make it appear like they understand, but we can usually tell if they don't. So right.
Teresa Mitchell, CFP: The advisor wasn't going to give him away.
Frances Harkins, CFP: Yeah, of course not. But that's why we try in our meetings to really look at the woman and ask her questions, see if she's got something that, you know, or even trying to discern what those questions might be and answer those. Looking at her and directing to her. And we usually at every meeting, we try and say, listen, no question is too small or insignificant. Please feel like you can ask us anything including about our fees and how we charge, how this might impact you. You know how this decision might be beneficial to one of you more than the other in, in any way. We really try and get the couple to both feel comfortable in asking questions. In particular, the one taking the backseat, which isn't always the woman.
Teresa Mitchell, CFP: That's one of the reasons why I think it's so important that women like you are involved in the industry, just an inborn sense of empathy. And I think that being a knowledgeable professional, but approaching the client with that caring, empathetic nature creates trustworthiness.
There've been some studies and men are a little bit more concerned with the numbers. How did they do? What did they win? So, they're great with the performance reports, but for a woman it's not about that at all. And in order to be comfortable enough to ask those, you know, at first pass, what she may feel is a stupid little question, is that sense of trust. When you trust someone, you can just be yourself. And if you don't know, you don't know. You just ask.
Frances Harkins, CFP: That's right. And so, while the male may be looking at the numbers, the woman might be feeling like, is this going to get me through retirement? What happens if something happens to him, will there be enough left? Will I be able to help the kids through college? Will I be able to help them in my retirement? Will I be able to be in a long-term care facility if I need to be? And those are the questions, really in the end, that's what it's all about. Not so much the numbers, but whether you can achieve these different milestones that you may have in your life. If you can live that life you want.
And I'm kind of talking about the things that are the hard ones, but what about the fun ones? Can you travel more? Can you buy that vacation home? We try to focus on those things. What can you do? We like to look at worst-case basis may be, or best-case basis may be this. But worst case is the bottom line. That's what we're going to worry about. And if we can get, get you up above worst case, then we can start talking about the fun stuff. Because it doesn't matter whether over the long run, you're earning 10, 12, or 14% in returns. What really matters is that you can do what you need to do in life.
Teresa Mitchell, CFP: Well, that's one of the big pluses of working with a financial advisor. Because one problem that women have, left to our own devices, we sometimes neglect long-term planning. And you brought up a couple of points that are really important. Women are risk adverse as it is. So, if they don't have adequate savings and don't invest, there could be serious consequences. So, how do you think we do a better job getting this message out?
Frances Harkins, CFP: The concern is getting them out of the risk averse mode and into you must take risks. Part of that is to explain to them, “Listen, the bank may have FDIC insurance and it may feel really safe, but with you just getting a half-percent interest in good years, see what that looks like over the long run.
And then we say, “What if we just add a little bit of risk?” So, “say we add 20% stocks. What does that do?” And when we can show them that over the long run, that gives them so much more of a cushion to do the things that they need to do, it really helps them to realize that what they're currently doing by keeping their money in the bank is much more risky than taking on a little bit of investment exposure. We're looking at what it means in a lifetime and trying to get them comfortable with the notion of why you need to invest.
Teresa Mitchell, CFP: That's a really good point because I think one of the things that women feel deeply is wanting to be able to help their family if needed. But they also don't want to be in a position of having their children or other family members to have to take care of them financially if they don't have the resources. It's made me think, some of the things that you've said -- that women get it, but have got to get over the fear. It's just the fear of not understanding, the fear of looking stupid or the fear of losing money.
Frances Harkins, CFP: And I see that as well in the idea of paying off your mortgage. That's a conversation that we have quite often as well because that's kind of a risk averse position. People feel that they want to pay off their mortgage so they're debt-free in retirement when really keeping that nice low interest rate on something that's going to get you the tax benefit at the same time is going to put you in a much stronger position.
But I also want to get back to the family. I think one of the things I see in many of my female clients through the years is this kind of failure to launch of their adult children. And not being able to say no, and to jeopardize their own financial situation, their own security. Because if you're having to help a child, who's 35, 40, 45 and you run out of money helping them they're probably not developing those skills where they're going to be able to be independent on their own. They're not going to be ever in a position to help you when you get there, and you can't work any longer and you can't give away any more money. So that's one of the things that I think is hard as an advisor to kind of come between the mother- child relationship. But to try and lay out to them that giving away this much money is a very risky thing to do.
Teresa Mitchell, CFP: That is a tough one. And I think what women don't realize is they're trying to protect their children, but most people, if they don't launch, it makes for an unhappy life. Just the numbers show the child is going to vastly outlive the parent. And so, then what happens? That's a nightmare.
I will have to say one of the things that we did at my firm, it was a glide path. You bring the parents in with the adult child, but then you separate them. You have a private meeting, just the advisor and that adult child, and suggest the glide path so that there's that feeling of support because I think there's fear involved when you haven't had some adversity - you're afraid to launch.
Frances Harkins, CFP: Right. Often, I think it's a confidence issue on the child as well as the mother. Because if she doesn't give this one more gift, what will happen? The disaster that might befall the child, if they don't help them with the mortgage, just one more time or whatever that may be. It really creates a lot of family stress and it's just very unhealthy long-term for the next generation.
Teresa Mitchell, CFP: And that's where the life planning aspect comes in. It's not just about the numbers, it's about the goals and the dreams and that sense of purpose and really living that. I think I would encourage the parents to be sure that they're not hanging on to that role of being the parent to the detriment of the child. So, it's important that they have their own life because that's another job that planners have to have, is that adjustment into retirement can be a rocky one emotionally for a lot of people.
Frances Harkins, CFP: It's funny. We talk so much about retirement, in our careers, and we work through with people often five, ten years before the retirement - or more. And then into retirement, it's a scary step for many people. And then it's kind of fun to see after a few months, the joy that comes across them saying, oh my gosh, I'm volunteering here. I'm traveling. I don't know how I ever found time to work. So, yeah, that's one of the real highlights of this job.
Teresa Mitchell, CFP: As long as we're talking about retirement. What I used to always say is -- the working years are all about saving and the retirement years are about spending. And so that leads us to the often-unpopular budget word. I'm sure we both had clients that are just rock stars, you know, have it down to every penny in multiple spreadsheets. There are other people that you're trying to do a meaningful financial plan and it's totally obvious from the numbers that you're given that they're guessing. I don't see any other way of really being on top of your financial situation other than periodically, just to have some clarity on your budget.
Frances Harkins, CFP: Right. And what we usually explain to clients. We're getting all of your documents. We're talking to you, finding out what your goals are. We know how much you're making; we know what kind of taxes you pay your house and your mortgage and all of that. But in terms of being able to confirm numbers, we cannot confirm what they give us. If they give us anything for the budget, right? Some people just don't want anything to do with that. So, it is a constant struggle, and we try and explain to people, listen, if these numbers are wrong, all the rest of it doesn't really matter. Especially if these numbers are really low.
So, we use a software that clients can actually track all the transactions, credit cards, checking savings, and all that. And we suggest that they get on that and just do it for three to six months so that they can look back and kind of get a reality check. And failing that we'll say, okay, you say that you only spend this much money. So, the model says that at the end of this year, you should have $30,000 that you put in the savings account. And that's where, you know, we get the eyes rolling. No, that never happens! So, then we start talking to them about how do we approach this? Do we just say that if there's any money left over, we just kind of wipe it away? Do we increase their expenses? Or how do we handle this? Because that is a really important aspect of their financial plan. Frankly, I'm not excited about talking about budgets, either my own or anyone else's, but that's certainly one of the major things that can bring you down in retirement.
Teresa Mitchell, CFP: I will have to say I did find something, that to me, made the idea of budgeting or a spending plan... (okay, not that it makes any difference, because you still have to do the same thing) makes it a little more sexy. It's a book. The title is Loaded and it's by Sarah Newcomb, a behavioral economist with Morningstar. She discovered that if you can determine what need associates with a particular spending item -- that is really helpful because then you have more control because there's nothing that feels better than feeling like you're spending in a thoughtful way. If there are things that you want to do, a lot of times, people think “Oh, I can't afford that,” but honestly, if they looked at their budget, there's a lot of things that we just get in the habit of doing, and we can make changes.
Frances Harkins, CFP: Right. Thinking about different ways that we spend. I think we've just spent the last year plus, at this point, figuring out kind of different ways of meeting those needs to go out to eat or to travel, to be entertained. And so, it's a very personal choice as to what you can, what you're willing to give up. In the end it is a matter of choices. You have so much money and what is your most valuable piece of that? And if it's dining out, but you can meet it in a different way like having all that social activity and fun comradery with making these wonderful meals for much less. You might end up increasing the amount of happiness you get from that budget item, right?
Teresa Mitchell, CFP: Absolutely. Or find that you could save the money for taking cooking lessons in Italy. I know one woman saved and took; it was pretty unbelievable. She took her whole family to Alaska on a cruise. I saw the pictures and the videos and the memories that that created and the experience, especially the young people, you know, a lot of times when they're growing up, they don't want to be around grandparents, and you don't get to know them maybe as well as you'd like. But something like that can be priceless.
I think one of the other issues, and I know with me, I've gotten so used to talking about the more intimate details of someone's financial situation with them. And I can kind of get away with it because as a professional, they sort of dropped some of the barriers. I'm sure you know where I'm going with the amazing taboo there is about talking about money. I think, especially for women, that's a significant issue because I think women like to discuss things before they make decisions. And there's the feeling that there's an inability to do that. So, what do you think about money taboos in terms of your experience?
Frances Harkins, CFP: Yeah, you know, I think it's a real issue in our culture. We don't teach about money. We don't talk about money. At least we talk about money in terms of success or what we've bought or what we've achieved, but we don't talk about our struggles with money or our attitude toward money or money as a tool. I think that leads to so much family strife and inner strife if you don't understand it, or if it's kind of scary, if you have a scarcity feeling about it. I like to encourage our clients to talk to their kids about money. And to talk about how they remember growing up. Was there a lot of money? Was there a little bit of money? Do they have real strong reactions about debt because maybe their parents came from the depression? Or budgeting? Those are the really important things. It's really a good way to teach values to your children by talking about how you approach money. You know, are you one that, you want to have the best for your family? Do you want to give to charity? Do you want to volunteer your time? All of these resources that we have and how they play out and how we want to impact our world. And I think it's really important for children to get a sense for how their parents see that. And for the parents to teach those valuable lessons about do's and don'ts of money and how to think about it.
Teresa Mitchell, CFP: I totally agree with you. And I think, unfortunately, the ramifications in terms of relationships should just sort of be part of the program. You get your marriage license, and you sign up for financial couple counseling, you know, so that you sort of have an idea of what you're getting into. And I think other relationships, even friendships, because people may be in a different economic situation than you really realize -- you don't know. So, by not having those conversations, it makes our human connections less rich and meaningful.
Frances Harkins, CFP: As somebody in this industry, you have a higher ability to suss out how people are doing, because that's what we do day in and day out. If you sense that someone is struggling... I mean, during COVID, for example, I couldn't get a haircut. I just sent my hairdresser money. She was so appreciative of it. And I think we really need to do more of that, where we recognize if we have abundance in our lives, or if we can afford to help others that are really struggling... just go get them a gas card, something that can do them a lot of good and try and make it so that it's not something that they're going to feel bad about it. You just say, “Hey, I was thinking about you. I'm so thankful. And I just thought, I'd give you this gas card.” What have you? I think that's really important.
I think this lack of education in our schools is really a problem. It's a passion of mine to tell people, please do talk about money in your family. I went to a financial planning conference not long ago, and there's a man named Mac Gardner who wrote a book. He's a CFP and he wrote a book called the Four Money Bears. He's very passionate about teaching children and this is geared for young people. We actually sent a copy to all of our clients one year at the holidays. Then said, if you don't have a child in your family, fine, give it to the neighbor, give it to the library, give it to your school, whatever, but we just think this needs to get out there.
Let's see if I can name the four money bears. There's the saver bear, the spender bear, the investor bear, and the giver bear. Those are the kinds of things that you can do with money. And it's really a cute book about how to think through all of that. I have a client, she’s got a financial background, but she stayed in banking. I sent her the book and she said, “Oh my gosh.” She said, “Francis, I learned something from that book.” And I said, “Oh, come on. What could you have learned from that book?” And she said, “I learned I'm not giving enough.” And I thought, wow, how wonderful is that? That just reading that book made her realize that's an aspect of money I haven't spent enough time thinking about.
Teresa Mitchell, CFP: That would give you a great avenue for starting a conversation with your grandkids, or whatever, about something like that. We get in this sort of mode of collecting possessions and money, and that becomes part of our identity.
Frances Harkins, CFP: Yes. You're definitely right there. And the other thing you were talking about collecting things and kind of, I think talking to our children about those decisions that we're making in terms of buying cars or walking by a vending machine and putting money in it. And those are the kinds of everyday thought processes and decisions that I think are opportunities for parents to talk to their children about.
You know, my daughter, Bridget is also a CFP and she surprised me the other day because she says one of her earliest money memories... We had a neighbor across the street who had all kinds of very fancy cars. And she said something about how they must have so much money. She was very young. And I said, well, honey, that is not necessarily true that they have a lot of money if they have those things, but it is true that they're spending a lot of money. So, she remembered that as one of the things she learned early on.
And the other is like walking by a vending machine like I said before. You've already bought that. It's in the car. You don't need to spend four times as much to get what you want at this moment. So, talking to kids about those decisions and why is really important, but at the same time, shielding the children from scary financial things. So, instead of saying, we can't afford it -- the vending machine, or we can't afford that car, we're choosing not to. A conscious decision that we don't need that right now, we can use our money better elsewhere. And it's not because there's scarcity or you need to worry about us not having a home anymore, but that we are making a conscious decision about this.
Teresa Mitchell, CFP: You know, that makes me realize when I grew up, we didn't have a lot of money. My father started his own business, but it was a rocky road in terms of cashflow. The family didn't talk about money. I knew sometimes my mother would be worried we wouldn't be able to pay our mortgage and she was afraid to talk to my dad. So, she would talk to me. I was the oldest child. I was too little to be able to do anything to help, and it was scary. And if I think back, what would have helped was if they had shared both the good and the bad. You know, had maybe regular financial meetings, especially as you say about the big-ticket items. So, that it was something you were used to, it wasn't suddenly you were hit when there was a crisis.
Frances Harkins, CFP: I think that that's really a good comment and that must've been very frightening to hear that the mortgage might not get paid. You're not sure what that means. But you see the fear in your mom, and that must spend so hard for her to not be able to speak with your dad about it.
Teresa Mitchell, CFP: That's back to the roles. You know, women have their roles, and you didn't challenge things like that. It was up to the man to be the breadwinner and you needed to show confidence, not concerns.
Frances Harkins, CFP: I think another reason that I was drawn to this industry is that my mom was a single mom. She grew up at a time where you graduated from high school, and you married your high school boyfriend. So, she didn't have a lot of skills when she was in a bad marriage to my father. It was very difficult for her to take control. It took her a lot longer than she would have liked to get out of that because she had to find a job during a recession that she could do, that would pay enough to be able to afford that divorce. Kind of seeing things like that through her eyes and the things that happened to her friends, because they weren't educated about money. They were looking to start a new relationship with someone, and someone would take advantage of them. There's still a lot of things that can really befall women if they don't understand the money part of it.
Teresa Mitchell, CFP: Or being left, holding the bag. There were friends of my mother that were not at all involved in the finances and their husband would pass away suddenly with a heart attack or something like that. And suddenly the woman discovers there's a mortgage on the house so there's not much equity there. There's not much savings. She didn't have any skills. She hadn't prepared for that possibility and so had to get a job as a salesclerk.
Frances Harkins, CFP: And that's the thing I always try and tell my nieces. That it's important that you have your own skills; that you can be financially independent on your own at any time in life.
Teresa Mitchell, CFP: One of the closing things that I want to talk about is end of life planning. It's a shame, especially when people do really make an effort and plan for the part of their life where they're active and then fail to make plans for when they're no longer able to take care of themselves. And you know what they want that situation to look like. I can tell you the worst part for me was any time there really was a lack of planning in a certain area. It was really stressful. You don't want to make those decisions for someone else.
Frances Harkins, CFP: No. You really want to have your wishes known and doing estate planning is so important. You can choose who you want to help you with your financial decisions and who you want to help you with your health decisions and what your wishes are. Because that's a huge burden to put on your family, to leave them not knowing what you would want and no paperwork to kind of show that someone has the authority to make those decisions for you. So, it really creates a lot of unnecessary stress, and it may end up that the person gets the exact opposite treatment that they would want.
Teresa Mitchell, CFP: And I think it's not much of a legacy either. Most of us spend our whole life trying to be a better person, trying to be more ourselves. And I think when your life ends badly and you're not able to do that, you know, that's sort of the last memory people have of you.
Frances Harkins, CFP: Right.
Teresa Mitchell, CFP: So, I think my last question, and you've already started to touch on it, has to do with your own personal passion, especially related to what you're doing with women. And I wondered if you just had a few things to say about that and why that's true. Why it's become a calling for you.
Frances Harkins, CFP: Well, I think, again, it goes back to my youth and growing up and seeing the struggles that my mother and her friends went through. Um, it was just really painful to watch that she really didn't have the ability to live the life she wanted to or needed or could do so securely because she did not have the confidence or the skills to get out and be able to support herself and her children. And so, I think women having a skill of some sort, whether it's going to college or an apprentice program, doing something where they can stand alone is really important. And also, for them to have the confidence that they are good with money. On the other side, there's plenty of people out there that are willing to take your money from you. And so, to make sure that women are cautious about people's motives and why they might be involved in their lives to make sure that they understand that this is their decision. And to be careful of who they trust, whether it be a child, a caretaker, a boyfriend, um, to just be wary... or an annuity salesman.
Teresa Mitchell, CFP: Yes. There's that.
Frances Harkins, CFP: Yes. So, to really just make sure that you're always asking those questions and that you're doing it for yourself and your family, to make sure you know where the money's going.
Teresa Mitchell, CFP: Well, thank you so much for being my guest today. It was such a pleasure talking with you.
Frances Harkins, CFP: The pleasure's mine. It was really nice to talk to you as well.
Teresa Mitchell, CFP: I hope you enjoyed this episode. I think there were a number of good takeaways. One is that women have a few natural roadblocks. This can make it really hard to get ahead financially. So, it's important to plan ahead and be involved in the process, whether you are single or have an in-charge partner.
While budget clarity is essential to achieving financial security, having thoughtful spending patterns help you get more out of life. Getting on top of investing fears is crucial to success. If you're struggling, you might consider working with an aligned professional. And lastly, start talking about money. It's an amazingly powerful tool for self-realization and for social change.
So, thank you for listening. If you would like more information on advisor Francis Harkins, go to her website at www.wheelsupwealthinc.com . For the Lady Money coaching program or blog, you can email me your host, Teresa Mitchell, at ladymoneyllc@gmail.com or check out the show notes.
So, until next time, this has been Lady Money, where money and values do mix.